Crafting discussion - no longer applicable rules

Please note the new guild craft rules. They go into effect March 5 00:00 Pacific Time.

Overall guidelines:
1) The GC is for the benefit of the guild to gather guild points (GP). It is not a 2nd personal craft (PC).
2) 30m workload (WL) is the optimal number to gather GPs. Any WL over 30m is wasted for the purposes of generating GPs.
3) All times and dates are referred in Pacific Time.
4) As a public use service, be considerate and do not hog or jam up the GC. Details on use to follow.

The rules:
1) On weekdays, craft WL will not exceed 30m unless it is a single large WL item, currently defined as nix/dg/evil gear.
2) On weekends, craft WL will not exceed 60m unless it is 2x large item WL, currently defined as nix/dg/evil gear. Yes, you may do 2x large gear ONLY ON WEEKENDS.
3) Only one person may have an order on GC at one time. Until your order clears production, you may not queue up another item. Even if there's no other item in queue, you must wait for your item to finish production
4) Stay to grind your item for 30m+ WL. You will be given 1 warning then officers will boot your GC queue w/o hesitation. No refund of GC fees. Multiple offenders will be banned.
5) If your item is far back in line and you fall asleep/leave in a rush/crash then not come back to grind it, that is not an acceptable excuse. Put your reservation up with a reasonable knowledge that you will get to grinding it. If you feel you cannot get to it, cancel it or don't put it up in the first place.
6) First time offenders will be refunded their GC fee.

If you have any questions feel free to ask any of the officers.

In regards to rule 4...what if we grind a lot of a previous WL to get our item on/near queue? Does that count? I think it should...

No, you cannot "store" credit. You need to be active for your craft. If you cannot reasonably assure that, remove it before you leave.

There's no feasible way to quantify and track the credit. Then it turns into a game of hearsay and he said/she said. We're not getting into that.

rule # 4 is very fair if you think about the huge workload from 2x nix, dg or evil.

Stick to old rules if you can't do rule #4 since it doesn't change anything.

Actually in regard to rule #4 please re-clarify for single nix/dg items since it goes over 30mil+, can we leave it in slot when we go to bed, sometimes timing is just not right no matter how we try?

Ok why rule 4 sucks and imho is unfair,

I logged on about 9 hrs ago and inserted a dg axe into the GC

the situation now is this, during the past 9hrs the main GC and the slot 1 has been crafted (crystals main, DG axe slot 1)
slot 2 is dg bow, no-one is on to set craft going (i.e. Arch is asleep) so it is going to sit there, same for slot 3 my DG axe,
today i have started and completed a pc craft for a fellow guildie and contributed to the axe and crystal craft but I have to log off now, so apparently I should cancel my craft, that sucks and is nonsense and if people get their crafts cancelled then i can see a fair few people getting hacked off

SaVage Guild craft - Designed by committee

I understand that #4 is harsh, but we have had problems with people putting up large crafts and leaving, fully knowing that someone else would do it. At least 50% of the complains, on this forum or not, revolves around people not grinding their own WL.

@ravy: the problem of leaving large crafts up and logging/afk'ing is the key problem. We are trying to discourage that. The current exception is 30m. If we want to increase the exception, we can talk about that.

@DL: Again, I agree it is harsh. I welcome any suggestions to make the rule more flexible, but at the same time, enforceable.
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Right now, I'm looking at the GC and no one active can start all 3 crafts. 2 of them are big WL. The GC is totally crippled and unusable for hours. This is a scenario we are trying to avoid. Let's keep the GC flowing constantly.

so I guess let us just see how it turns out, as with comedy it appears to all be about timing...

All i have to say is people need to grow up. and stop complaining about this and that. For one the gc rules have worked thus far and we have done well. The new rules screw over all the daytime people. Im not speaking for myself on that because i am basically nighttime but for most of the cc people they are day and if its an only arch craft they are screwed there is no way that you can expect them to have to stay up to grind their craft if arch cant start til the night. Most of them have jobs and do have to sleep. So for those people its either they have to lose sleep or just not be able to use gc if only arch can craft it. Which that levels out almost all dg and every evil. But there is no way to actually enforce any rule on it besides what has been done. So thats why i say that people should just really grow up and either take responsibilty and help with gc and be fair with it on a moral note. Being in savage we are like a family which we should treat each other like that as well. I do think that people should help on their craft especially if its large but sometimes its just not possible. All i can say is people should be curtious and help their fellow guildies on that. Double crafts on bonus is definally a good idea. As for getting letting things get totally filled in gc i think we should at all times keep a crystal or tool in the third slot just something that basically everyone can do. that rule can be enforced be stating that if there are two nix/dg/evil in the reserve already then the 3rd slot it not to be used for a craft that might not be able to be started. And if somebody does put something up an officer take down the last craft put up so something can be put up in its place. I think its great that kang wants to try to come up with rules to help and make it fair for everybody. Either way i will continue to help gc when i can.

On another note we need to get together and decide on certain crafts that we can level up so that we dont have just one person that can do 15 of the crafts nobody else can. I will volunteer to level crafts to help the guild that need more crafters. If arch was to quit or be gone for any amount of time then are screwed on almost all of the crafts we can do at the moment. So should definally discuss crafts guildies can take up to keep the strain off of arch.

Since we depend on arch so much for dg and evil crafts I'm taking a poll are people who volunteer on a craft to lvl up so that if we do ever lose arch or he goes on vaction we can keep the gc flowing with equips crafts. Pm me things that you are willing to lvl up. Only need equip crafts. The cheapest way to lvl up a skill is to craft freezing and analyze or just craft and dismantle for more sea ele to make the craft even cheaper. As a thank you gift for helping out I will offer up a free dg craft from my own funds for raising a skill to dg lvl and two dg crafts for raising to evil lvl. This will only apply to those who pm me and sign up for a skill and those who are not currently at dg lvl. But will also be to where only two people may get a dg craft for one skill. But you are eligiable for more dg crafts if you lvl a 2nd skill. Im sorry for the last rule on that but I can only put out so much of my own money. It may not be worth the time or cash but its at least something. I am also up for other ideas that anyone might offer.

The problem is there is no way to make a single nix/dg/evil craft less than 30mil.

I don't have the heart to cancel a single nix/dg/evil craft in slot if they went to bed or went afk, since the workload is still doable. I would like rule #4 for the double nix/dg/evil and max 60mil increase for lower equips during weekend.

I would like people to make an effort to finish their workload for single nix/dg/evil but not enforcing such a harsh rule.

I agree people like arch, mot, dl and many others should be recognize for the amount of money and time they have to use to p/c to get their skills up so high.

However at the same time I think people who regularly finish off the g/c should be appreciated too since they are giving their time to finish off the g/c instead of p/cing and upping their own skill faster ( from the lower lvs who have g/c on all the time - higher lv) and yet these people are at the most disadvantage since they gotta wait for the crafters to start the g/c and the least appreciated.

So in appreciation to the the people who mindlessly grind their own g/c and others, rule #4 should not be subjected to single nix/dg... maybe evil. Its not like nix and dg workload is a problem, evil on the other hand is... with its huge workload. *edit* I think evil is ok too since when they get back it still be there for the uploader to finish the workload.

Lets keep one slot that everyone can do, we probably need it since we have so many people at a level where high lv gears are needed now, its a wise move to include it in.

On another note, can we break off our sentences in paragraphs instead of one large block of text? Its hard to read.

All I can say yes I am one thankful for mot arch and dl and all those who took time to raise their skills. But we can't just assume that they are going to be there all the time.

Eventually everybody leaves ao thats how it is. And if we continue the course as is we are going ot be in deep trouble when arch does leave. But honestly just grinding the g/c isnt enough. I've grinded it like crazy and for now its a great thing not for later though. And ive had around 6 or 7 tell me what they wanted to work on so for the most part got the majority of all crafts covered. There are very few left now and if nobody gets around to it i will pick them up myself also.